Hello again, The Wheel of Time fans! Can you believe we’ve already reached Week 11 of Reading The Wheel of Time? In some ways it has flown by, and yet in others it does seem like it has been quite the journey to get here. My feelings mirror Rand and Mat’s this week: together we have all reached Caemlyn, which has been such a huge goal for a good portion of the story now, and yet is only a tiny piece of the whole journey. The boys, particularly Mat, are feeling the toll of it this week, but we, from the safety of our couches and armchairs, are feeling the excitement of a book that feels like it’s just about to ramp up the action again. Will Mat and Rand find a safe place to rest in Caemlyn? Will Moiraine, Lan, and Nynaeve be able to catch up to them? And who is this mysterious Aes Sedai who is friends with the Queen?
All that remains to be seen, but at least in this section, which covers Chapters 34-36, Rand and Mat do make it to Caemlyn, and discover a few unexpected allies, which is a pleasant change from the avalanche of enemies that have beset them for so long. There are also some fun little tidbits, including background for a certain Thom Merrilin, and, to my delight, more about the Ogier who were mentioned earlier in regards to the steddings.
In the beginning of Chapter 34, Mat and Rand pass through a town called Carysford, but although it looks peaceful and welcoming, they no longer trust anything, and are careful not to be seen as they slip through the darkness and further down the road, finding some haystacks to sleep in. Mat asks Rand if they will make it, and repeats his belief that they are the only ones of the group left alive. Rand does his best to stay positive, reminding Mat that it’s only a day or two of travel left before they reach Caemlyn.
When they wake in the morning they find that the road has become very busy, filling up with travelers on their way to see the false Dragon. It even gets crowded enough to be a little dangerous, as passing carts and merchants trains have no compunction about running down those walking on foot or even striking out at them with the butts of spears or their drivers’ whips. Rand takes a gash over his eyebrow when he misjudges the length of one such whip, and overhears a conversation between a local farmer and a member of the Queen’s Guard, during which he learns that as crowded as it is here, it’s even more so in Caemlyn.
The crowd offers some welcome anonymity to Rand and Mat, but they still don’t dare use their flute-playing and juggling for pay, or to even shelter in an inn. They press on through town after town, as wary of the locals as the locals seem to be of them, into the night and ignoring the pain of their endless walking as best they can. Finally, seeing the lights of another town ahead of them, Mat decides they should definitely stop, but Rand insists that it be on the other side of the town. Keeping out of sight, the boys pause in the shadows near an inn to wait for some men to clear out of the way so they can pass, but as they wait, Rand begins to get an uneasy feeling from them. He realizes that one man, who is preparing a horse and cart for travel, is aware that Mat and Rand are there and is deliberately not looking at them. Meanwhile, just at the edge of the illuminated square, two other men are talking. One stands in shadow, and the other seems very uncomfortable with the conversation they are having.
As the man in shadow moves away, Rand feels his skin prickle, and tries to dismiss the feeling until he realizes that an inn’s sign is blowing in the wind, but the figure’s cloak is not moving. It is a Fade.
The two remaining men begin to talk, and the man with the cart (Almen Bunt) accuses the other (Raimun Holdwin) of keeping suspicious company for an innkeeper. Holdwin retorts that a farmer like Bunt doesn’t know anything about all the people Holdwin is friends with, and explains that the man is from Four Kings, and is looking for two thieves who stole a Heron-marked sword from him. He tells Bunt that the thieves are young men who are also Darkfriends and followers of the False Dragon, and goes on about how tricky and sly the young men are. Bunt is highly skeptical of the whole thing, of how much detail Holdwin knows and how extravagant the story is. Rand and Mat also overhear that Bunt intends to drive to Caemlyn in the night, to avoid the crowds, and the farmer is dismissive of Holdwin’s insistence that the night is dangerous and that Bunt is a fool.
After Holdwin leaves, Rand makes the risky decision to ask for a ride, knowing that the Fade is out there in the night and will certainly find them if they stay on foot. Despite being startled by their approach, Bunt agrees easily enough and proves quite chatty as they ride with him through the night, and they learn that the Queen has an Aes Sedai named Elaida who is a close advisor, although Bunt doesn’t like that the throne is still tied to the Aes Sedai, even if it is traditional. Rand wonders if they should go find this other Aes Sedai if Moiraine never meets them in Caemlyn. He then falls asleep as Bunt talks on about Queen Morgase and the royal family, and he dreams of Myrddraal killing Egwene. He wakes up, only to find a raven sitting on his chest, which croaks “You are mine” and plucks out his eye before Rand wakes for real, shouting. Bunt mentions that Rand’s yelling startled him, and then announces that they have arrived in Caemlyn.
Once again Rand is amazed by the size and commotion of this new, bigger city. Mat is too, and he starts panicking about the number of people, demanding of Rand how they can ever know who to trust among so many people, heedless of the fact that Bunt is right there near them and could overhear. Indeed, Mat seems completely overwhelmed, even to the point of holding his hands over his ears against the noise. Taking them aside, Bunt tells Rand that if people are looking for them, the thing Holdwin said he was hiding will certainly give them away, and suggests he get rid of it before leaving the boys. Instead of losing the sword, though, Rand strikes on a plan to cover it with strips of cloth, mimicking a trend he’s seen other swordsmen in the city wearing. Matt, meanwhile, is caught up in his panic, insisting again and again that Moiraine and the others are dead but leaves off after Rand admonishes him. Together they manage to get directions to the inn Thom told them to find, The Queen’s Blessing.
The innkeeper, a man named Basel Gill, takes them to the back when they mention Thom’s name, and Rand explains that Thom was killed protecting them. Basel Gill seems skeptical of the story, but tells them that he believes they are telling the truth and only doubts that Thom was truly killed. He does not think the bard is easy to kill, and he tells them a little more of Thom’s story, how he was a Court Bard for Queen Morgase, and that it’s suspected that he was her lover, too. But Thom left unexpectedly when the “trouble about his nephew cropped up,” leaving the Queen angry, and when Thom returned, he argued with her and then “left Caemlyn half a step ahead of a trip to prison, if not the headsman’s axe.” Thus, Gill doesn’t think the boys should mention Thom to anyone, but he will give them beds and food for Thom’s sake, for he considers the bard a friend.
Rand gives Gill a truncated version of their story, leaving out the Trollocs and Fades, but still emphasizing that helping them might put Gill in danger. But the innkeeper seems unperturbed, unwilling to let possible danger stop him from helping friends of Thom’s. He promises to keep his ear to the ground for news of Moiraine, but advises them not to go to Elaida, the Queen’s Aes Sedai, or even to the Guards, because their connection to Thom might land them in hot water.
Despite their momentary safety Mat is tense almost to the point of paranoia, despairing of the idea that they may have to continue on to Tar Valon alone, afraid of the crowded city, suspicious of Gill for helping them, and convinced still that Egwene and Perrin and everyone else is dead. Rand does his best to rally his friend, but ends up leaving Mat alone, lying in bed and unwilling to engage with anything.
Looking for somewhere quiet to sit, Rand is directed by a maid to the empty library. But as he’s admiring the collection he is suddenly surprised by a creature that he thinks, for a moment, is a Trolloc. It’s not a Trolloc at all but an Ogier, which Rand only realizes when the creature mentions leaving the stedding.
Rand learns that the Ogier is named Loial, and that he is young for an Ogier at only 90 years old. Loial explains that he left the stedding in order to see the world and the great Groves that the Ogier planted, although he was technically too young to be allowed to go and snuck away while the elders were still debating if he should be allowed. Loial talks about how the Ogier grew the massive Groves to make the world more beautiful, but that most are gone now, much to his sorrow. The Ogier also built many of the cities of men, including Caemlyn, but Rand is surprised to learn that the Ogier learned stonework out of necessity, and it is the trees that are their true passion.
Rand is also surprised to learn that the Ogier believe in the Pattern. There is a brief moment confusion between the two when Loial speaks a quote he clearly expects Rand to recognize, and is almost offended when Rand doesn’t respond; he has pegged Rand as an Aielman, at which point Rand explains that he is from the Two Rivers, and has never even seen an Aielman. Still, Loial’s knowledge and calm demeanor are comforting to Rand, and he finds himself confiding the entire story of his flight from the Two Rivers, leaving nothing out, not the Trollocs or the Fades, or even his dreams. When he is finished, Loial tells Rand of ta’veren. He explains that the Pattern is not entirely fixed, and that if a person tries to change his life in some small way, it often will shift to accommodate it. But large changes are not so possible, unless, as Loial puts it “the change chooses you.” This person whose thread is the change in the Pattern is called ta’veren, and Loial is sure that Rand is such a person, and perhaps his friends too. He asks to travel with Rand, and although Rand is tempted, the danger posed to anyone traveling with him, as well as the fact that Loial will draw a lot of attention wherever he goes, dissuades him. He promises to spend some time with Loial while in Caemlyn, however, and Loial, sympathetically, tells Rand that he is sure that his friends are well.
Whew! There’s enough exposition in Chapter 36 alone for an entire post, but mainly I’m just over here dancing because I knew Thom wasn’t dead! Of course, technically I still don’t know, but the narration wouldn’t drop such juicy tidbits as “‘I’ll believe he’s dead… when I see his corpse,’” for nothing.
There’s a lot of great detail in these chapters, and the exposition is some of the smoothest we have had to date. From Bunt’s chattering about Queen Morgase and the royal connection to Tar Valon, to Loial’s scholarly explanations of how the Pattern works, to the important misidentification by the Ogier of Rand as an Aielman (if it was a misidentification at all) the reader has learned a lot they didn’t know before. The explanation of how the Pattern works might be the most significant in terms of the whole tale, but the fact that Loial believes Rand to be an Aielman will probably be very important to Rand later.
Despite Nynaeve’s reassurances when she and Rand talked back in Baerlon, it is pretty clear to us by now that Tam’s fevered ramblings held more truth than not. Rand was somewhat reassured by the explanation that he had, in fact, been born outside the Two Rivers, but that Kari al’Thor was clearly (in Nyneave’s mind) his mother. On the other hand, Rand is aware that it doesn’t actually prove anything. No doubt he remembers Tam’s words “I knew you’d take [the baby] to your heart, Kari.” And while Rand doesn’t recognize the name Sightblinder, he probably does remember Tam uttering the word Avendesora in his fever. Connecting the name with Loial’s description of the chora clearly startles Loial, and although neither Rand nor the reader fully understands why, I think it’s pretty safe to say that Loial may have intuited more about Rand’s heritage than Rand himself yet knows.
Thinking back to Chapter 6, there’s a lovely little tidbit there as Rand listens to Tam’s mumblings. He knows the name Avendesora means the Tree of Life and has heard tales of it, though in the tales there is only one tree belonging to someone called the Green Man. Rand is bemused to hear Tam ramble so much about things of legends, and specifically thinks: Maybe all the stories were as real as the news the peddlers and merchants brought all the gleeman’s tales and all the stories told at night in front of the fireplace. Next he might actually meet the Green Man, or an Ogier giant, or a wild, black-veiled Aielman.
Those thoughts meant nothing to me back on page 98, but here now the Avendesora has come back into the story, and Rand is talking to an Ogier who believes that Rand himself is an Aielman. That is a really tight little piece of narration. I can only assume Rand is going to meet the Green Man, too, before long.
I am also really pleased that I didn’t have to wait too long to find out what Ogiers are! A mix of the traditional idea of ogres and and Tolkein’s ents, it would seem. I was having visions of Quickbeam from the way Loial went on about humans being “hasty” because their lives were so short, and how he himself is young for an Ogier and “hotheaded” in comparison to the others. His name (literally loyal with the Y changed to an I) is probably significant too, and I wonder if he won’t end up being a valuable companion to Rand at some point. Rand could certainly use a steady friend, now more than ever since Mat is totally falling apart. I’m getting worried about him, to be honest, his depressive paranoia is going to have to come to a head sometime soon.
Loial’s explanation of the way the Pattern works has given me another thread (haha) to add to my evolving theories about free will vs fate in the world of The Wheel of Time. The fact that people can often change the Pattern in small ways is an interesting one, and it makes everything feel a bit more like our world to me. Whether it be through the web of Fate or just the mechanics of everyday life, it makes sense that small changes would be easy but large ones would be harder to achieve, and it also makes sense that the greatest changes of all would send ripples throughout the world, altering many things. It is of course significant that Artur Hawkwing and Lews Therin were both ta’veren. As a great king who reshaped the kingdoms and affected the lives of every subject very deeply, Artur Hawkwing would have redirected so many threads of the Pattern that it would be forever altered in its course. And Lews Therin was responsible for the Breaking, which seems to have been the most significant event to happen in the world literally ever. I wonder if every Dragon would be automatically ta’veren, though, considering the significance of the identity as Champion of the Light.
In addition to the idea of fate vs choice, of personal control vs. a universal pattern, I also like thinking of the karmic aspect of the fact that each person’s pattern influences the whole. The ways we behave in the world can have far reaching consequences to others, but often those are not so easy to comprehend. If only we could see the strands we weave, and the shape of those we effect.
On that rather philosophical note, I will leave you to the comments section, dear readers. Next week I am going to take another break like Week 4’s and go back to analyze Perrin’s dream in Chapter 27 and Rand’s dreams in Chapter 33 and 34. We’ll talk about Ba’alzamon marking them, about rats and ravens, and about the fact that all three boys have dreamt of losing an eye.
Sylas K Barrett works as a writer and actor and lives in Brooklyn.
Ah, our three great info dumps in a row (Bunt, Gill and Loial). Lots to unpack. Good for you to remember to look back at Tam’s fever ramblings back on Winternight, which have their own overlapping info dumps and appear to be increasingly understandable as you pick up context. Fun times! RJ is really good at this.
Kelsey – given your theme for next week, it might be a good idea also to add in the “Ravens” prologue that was part of the special version of EOTW marketed to teens.
Fun fact: The Ogier started out in Jordan’s notes as very much traditional fantasy dwarves but evolved into something much different.
You pick up on so many interesting connections :) I look forward to your musings on eyes :)
It’s been fun reliving how Jordan gradually introduces us to his world – maybe others have different opinions, but I never felt these sections were info-dumpy.
This ta’veren thing might pop up a couple more times…
ARRRRRRRGGGGG! We have to wait TWO WEEKS!
i don’t think this is “spoilage:”. When I reflect on TEOTW, and the major events that occur – and then do a re-read – I am always struck by how most of the really memorable action happens in the very late chapters. Page-wise, the last 150 or so (of the 700) contain AN AWFUL LOT! Suffice it to say that, after a long (but interesting and necessary – I’m not complaining AT ALL) build-up, things are about to start popping! The anticipation of your reaction is killing me.
I think it’s really important to understanding early-series Rand that every (nearly) major reveal about himself was discovered, and not told to him by his companions. Tam didn’t tell him where he came from. Moiraine and Lan are certainly worldly enough to notice that he looked like an Aielman, but they didn’t tell him anything either.
Add that to this whole episode from Whitebridge that would make anyone paranoid, and you have the building blocks for MAJOR trust issues.
Mat is one of the most fun characters to watch suffer. I can just picture him swaying, bleary-eyed on the back of that wagon saying “At least you got some sleep. He talked ALL NIGHT.”
Always enjoy your posts. I noticed an apparent typo though:
I think in this sentence (and only this sentence) you have Bunt and Holdwin mixed up. Bunt is the “farmer who doesn’t know anything” and Holdwin is the innkeeper who was talking with the Fade.
@8 – good catch. Exactly right.
@7 – nice insights, in the first paragraph in particular.
@@.-@ – I view them as info dumpy but in a skilled, subtle way. One of RJ’s strengths.
I want to stay at the Queen’s Blessing. It’s clean, good food and it’s got a LIBRARY and a resident Ogier! Wonderful. Finally something nice happens to Rand and Mat. Of course it isn’t going to last.
Caemlyn sounds like a great tourist stop – in normal times. Unfortunately as we all know these are not normal times.
@Lisamarie (#4) I mean, they kind of are, but sometimes info dumping can still be fun. I definitely like the way Loial’s conversation expanded the world for me, and because his perspective and knowledge base is so different from Rand’s, it felt really organic, rather than a conversation that was just there to inform the reader. It felt important for Rand to be learning from Loial, and I just got the benefit of that.
@tbgh: (#7) That’s a really interesting point. While Perrin has found a mentor/guide of sorts in Elyas and Nynaeve and Egwene will have the ability to look up to other Aes Sedai, there isn’t exactly someone who can guide Rand on his journey of self-discovery. Maybe Thom will come back and give him a hand.
@KalvinKingsley: (#8) Ah yes, thanks for the catch. Sometimes my initial notes get confused and I miss correcting them. So many names!
@princessroxana (#10) I would stay there for sure. It’s definitely my favorite inn so far. We can learn to play stones!
I don’t think Bunt is aware of Rand and Mat when they are eavesdropping. He is listening to Holdwin and the Fade and deliberately “ignoring” them.
Stones is just go.
Hmm, my post appears to have gotten lost. If it doubles up, my apologies. I can’t get out of my head the Monty Python and the Holy Grail line that Camelyn “is a very silly place” filled with vaguely Arthurian names (Camelyn instead of Camelot; Morgase, Gawyn, Elayne….)
@12, I gather ‘Stones’ is just Go by another name. I don’t know how to play it but according to Ivan Morris, an expert on early Japan, it’s the best game ever invented.
Personally I love infodumping. It’s probably why I’m such a big Tolkien fan. You want to stop the action in order to explain the history of the Third Age. Fine, I’ll get popcorn!
#13, #15. Ah, very cool. I don’t know how to play Go so I’ll still have to learn. ;-)
As usual, great catches. Yeah that ta’veren thing might very well come around again! What I found so amazing about the exposition in TEOTW is just how much of it turns out to be significant. Details you have caught but also other things that will later make you stop and think, umm, what was that again? Didn’t I read something about that back in….
It’s one of the things I love best about the world Jordan created.
Regarding the names in Camelyn, naming in general and real world references in WoT are so fun to me. Kelsey, do you have any thoughts on names and references we’ve seen so far? Artur Paendrag Hawkwing ges double duty to me for both Arthur Pendragon and Stephen Hawkings (dunno if the last one is deliberate but it feels deliberate to me). Have we been given the Dark One’s actual name yet? and the big bad evil it is similar to? I just love the way Jordan sprinkles these references so liberally in ways that make his world like could almost be ours in some long lost turning past or yet to be. Would love to hear your thoughts on the one’s that you’ve caught so far though?
Hawkwing is also Alexander the Great, and the hawk is probably a changed Roman eagle.
Hmm. Kelsey, where did you get the word “chora?”
@19, is he? I hadn’t made that connection myself, but it does fit.
Kelsey you once again have some good catches, that said it’s nice to see you haven’t picked up on everything, makes those of us mere mortals that miss things feel a lot better…
//you only picked up on half of Rand’s heritage even though both sides of his family tree were discussed, if mother’s side was only briefly, you also missed significance of red vs white cloth but that one will be revealed very shortly//
Really enjoy your insights
There’s something in there that really made me chuckle….
// There is an insane voice in the head Dragon that may or may not be willing to help him //
@18, 19 & 21
Charlemagne is another, as he famously tried to make a new capital city at the centre of his realm
//Charlemagne had a famous sword like Hawkwing, Hawkwing’s called Justice, Charlemagne called Joyeuse (I had to look up that name)//
@20:
I wondered the same thing given the word doesn’t appear in text until chapter 26 of TSR. That’s the second chapter of the Way, Way Back Machine sequence.
Info-dumping only bores me when it concerns people and environments that I don’t care about. Too much info-dumping in the early chapters, before I had become interested in the characters, would be bad. By now in the story, I WANT information on character backgrounds, political environment, and such. I did not – even on my first read of the book in the late 1990s – ever become distracted or bored by RJ’s supplying of background info. He was a master of this, IMO.
@24
Exactly. Kelsey, I don’t know if you’ve read ahead (way ahead) or if you have been to any wikis or blogs, but I’d suggest not doing either, as the spoilers are everywhere. I’d
@24 & @26 another possibility is Kelsey looked at an old tounge translator. As chora directly translates to Avendesora?
To those asking about my use of the word “chora”: I must have accidentally picked it up when I was double checking my spelling of Avendesora! I don’t read any blogs or wikis to stay spoiler free, but sometimes I google spellings or look up name references (like the time I forgot who Mistress Luhhan was) instead of flipping through the book, just ’cause it’s faster. So funny, I didn’t even notice until y’all mentioned it and I went back to check my copy, totally convinced that Loial had used the word!
(Just tried it, yeah, when you google Avendesora it comes up with an entry for “Chora” on the Wheel of Time Wiki. Not really a spoiler I guess, since I just figured it was another word for the Great Trees. But I am NOT reading more than a few chapters ahead of the posts each week.)
Dang, ya’ll are sharp though. :-)
Regarding go and stones, as someone that plays go (3 kyu when I was playing regularly years ago), the game descriptions don’t quite mesh. It would have to be a variation. A central concept in go is a group achieving life. This means a group of stones is of sufficient size, and the right shape, that it even if surrounded and cut off, it can’t be captured. One of the differences between beginners and upper amateurs is learning the right shapes to keep these groups alive.
In later books, there are several references to groups of stones being cut off and captured. Even (I think) “a third of his stones.” Especially in games among gifted players, such a large group would never be captured, because only a beginner couldn’t make a shape that was alive with so many stones. Among the best players, as several characters are meant to be, even medium groups of stones are rarely captured because they’re always careful to “make life” when they invest more than a few stones.
However, like I said, it sounds like a variation with different (and much more difficult) requirements to keep a group of stones alive.
Chora isn’t the same as the Great Trees. //Avendesora is the last chora tree, it isn’t a synonym for chora.//
Are the stones in the text really all in one group? Does it make more sense when they are in several smaller groups?
If they were in several smaller groups they’d have to all be cut off separately. And even when a player gets a group of stones cut off, the first question is can they make life in the space that’s left. Describing so many games of go without once mentioning life would be like describing a bunch of games of chess without mentioning check (or some analogue thereof like threatening the king).
I’m not aware of anywhere RJ addressed the question, and it’s possible he was trying to describe go without really being a player, but these are not how games of go . . . go. :-)
I may be imagining things, but doesn’t the Stones board include terrain? My understanding of it was that it was mechanically akin to Go, but in more of a descended-from way than being directly adapted. It seems far more militarily oriented.
@28
That’s good to know. Of course Google can be fraught with peril for novices, whether for Old Tongue words or worldbuilding concepts, but also especially for people and places.
As for why that word jumped out at us… as RJ said: “Read And Find Out.”
It makes sense for there to be some differences between Stones and Go. It’s unlikely that a game would be traditioned through the ages without any changes at all, while memories become legend and legend fades to myth. But whether Stones evolved from Go, or Go evolved from Stones, that’s an open question.
Many things happen in Caemlyn that will have consequences later. Although the whole book is full of foreshadowings and setting up for later developments, I feel that the concentration is particularly high in Caemlyn. Pay attention, Kelsey! (But it’s obvious that you already do.)
@34
Which came first the chicken or the egg…
@35 Tangent accepted!
Assuming you believe in evolution, the egg came first. There is some point in history where an animal that was not a chicken had an offspring that was a chicken. The identity of an egg is determined by what hatches out of it, not by what lays it (imagine poultry artificially inseminated with some hybrid). So therefore the first chicken egg (laid by a non-chicken) came before the first chicken.
@36 Thank you! “Tangent accepted” has just become one of my new favourite sayings!! Lol.
@36:
Most Creationists would agree with that statement as well, if presented in the right way. I don’t know any educated person who believes in a Creator who thinks ALL forms of birds were created at the same time. Or all breeds of canines, or felines, etc.
@36 I’m with 37 great phrase.
Tangent accepted
An absolute pleasure to relive this series through fresh eyes. You dancing because Thom may not be dead brings a grin to my face… because I feel it too! One of the (many) strengths of TWoT is the ensemble cast. There are few series I can recall in which I’ve fallen in love with so many characters. When the story feels like it focuses for a long while on a single thread, I don’t often mind.
I am also amazed by your ability to pick up on so many minor details and hints of what is to come. I imagine it helps that you are ruminating on these things in order to make your weekly posts. Nonetheless, you find significance in the littlest details and are just about always “right on the money”.
Looking forward to next week already…
@37 & @39
If there were more people like you in the world, I’d be out trademarking it right now. Thanks!
Leigh repeatedly called Loial “adorable.” Lia called him “a giant teddy bear” in this chapter. I call him the sweetest character in Randland, but that’s just the start of his wonderfulness.
“No man knows the mind of a woman, and a queen is twice a woman – wed to a man, wed to the land.” So womanhood is measured by amount of married-ness. Lovely.
////“I’ll believe he’s dead when I see his corpse.” A wise philosophy in this story. But even if you see someone’s corpse, they still might not be permanently dead.///
///“If the worst happened, maybe this Elaida could help them read Tar Valon.” Ohhhh dear.///
@42 AeronaGreenjoy Loial may very well be adorable and a big teddy bear but anyone who thinks that’s all there is to an Ogier is seriously underestimating them.
Definitely, and I don’t think Leigh does. Or Lia, eventually.
@42
//In fact if you REALLY want to make sure they’re dead you need to burn their thread back in time which DOESN’T leave a body...//
@45
//Theoretical question. If say Lan was hit by balefire minutes after saving Nynaeve from the bottom of the harbor, so Nynaeve was not killed by balefire but her death did occur in the past because of balefire, could she be resurrected? (Assuming the Dark One wanted to.) Would she leave a corpse? //
@46 //IMO, No the DO can only reach and get a soul at the moment they die, Nynaeve would still die ergo her soul can’t be saved. The reason he can’t get people who have been B’fired is he can’t reach back in time to gain the souls//
// Counter Question: if the DO had reached out to get Mat’s soul when Rahvin kills him, would he have come back normal or would the DO having had his soul for a period of time affected his return?//
47. Stevros // Matt would have come back normal. The DO has no control over time. So just like he cannot reach back and take the soul of someone who’s been B’fired, it would be like he never had Matt’s soul because he was brought back by B’firing Rahvin. //
Apologies if this is a double post. The board is being wonky.
@48
//However, Mat would have remembered being brought back by the DO, so that would have to screw with his head.//
Loial may be a giant teddy and adorable, but once the anger is stirred….
Beware the angry Olgier!
// JK! I don’t have anything to add this week. :) //
@15 I don’t mind infodump either when it’s done in character as an actual part of the story and RJ was wonderful at it. In fact, significantly better than Tolkien IMO as you don’t feel like you’re reading the bible when receiving the information – come at me.
@52, You’re thinking of the Silmarillion aren’t you? I admit the archaic style of writing can be challenging. It took me a decade or so to be able to read it through.
@AeronaGreenjoy: Regards @42, I’m not sure that was the intention of the comments about a woman being married. More, I always took Gill’s comments to mean two things, it is a reference to his strange relationship with the tavern’s cook and that he doesn’t understand his own feelings and relationship, but also that it takes being a Woman to be able to marry oneself to a man (or the land) and still be your own person, not subsumed by that other, and that to be married to both was a feat even beyond that. Gill seems somewhat in Awe (intentionally capitalised) of Morgase, and the cook…
@2 – “add in the “Ravens” prologue” – does it exist on audiobook as well?
@@.-@ – “It’s been fun reliving how Jordan gradually introduces us to his world – maybe others have different opinions, but I never felt these sections were info-dumpy. ” – Me neither. Well actually as I love the whole worldbuilding, I think I mostly never mind info dumps. I prefer them (if they are not dull) over too much traveling. I love the traveling, but the overuse of description of their surroundings gets on my nerve sometimes.
@13 – “It’s definitely my favorite inn so far. We can learn to play stones!” – Yeah stones! Does anyone know how to play, since it is not the last time we will encounter them, I’d love to know how that works
@15 – “You want to stop the action in order to explain the history of the Third Age. Fine, I’ll get popcorn! ” Haha, exactly!
@40 – “There are few series I can recall in which I’ve fallen in love with so many characters” – I love to love characters, only if they are loveable characters, and since I love here as well so many of them it’s in my top 3 favorite series (can’t decide if it’s first or second).
Ok….I feel like I’m lost and wandering the Aiel Waste! I can’t figure how to read the spoilers in the comment section. I have read the entire series & really enjoy reading the comments. Please advise
umm just point your mouse cursor over the space of whited out text, then left click and hold down the button while dragging the cursor through that text, you’ll see white text with blue surroundings.
I’m reading the comments on my phone. I can’t left click!
@59
Just hold your finger over the comment untill you activate the “copy, cut, etc” options, which will also activate the ability to select what part of the text you want copied. Move it over the white and reveal. Read. Cancel the function once done. At least that’s how it works on my phone (android)
It’s an iPhone 6 and this is extremely frustrating! Thanks for the help. Still can’t read spoilers. Searched google for an hour…found no way to look at spoiler text. Just have to pull it up on the laptop when I get home.
@61 it does not seem to work in iOS on my iPad. I either read them on my laptop, on my Android phone, or copy and paste the apparently white space into the IPad “Notes” app.
I wish this was also a podcast! Binge reading these having only just discovered them, and I’m just wishing I could keep reading while I do all the menial chores that must be done. So fun to go back to the beginning of WoT. I am 2 books from the end and this is the perfect refresher before I dive into the final tomes.